American Soldiers Rape of French and German High

Two articles I found.

http://couchtripper.com/rapedbysoldiers/?p=270

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/09/366078.shtml

What do you think? I may be American and the American version of History they teach is that American Soldiers were Good Guys who were welcomed and beloved by the French and German populace.

A friend of mine who was in the 173rd Airborne Brigade mentioned something about the 82nd Airborne tearing up a a Paris Hotel to shit so I decided to do research and was surprised how vicious and brutal American soldiers can be in WW2.

Soldiers are conditioned to be able to commit violent acts without flinching, and there will always be some in any army that become desensitised as a result. Combine this with anti-enemy propoganda that tends to be a theme in any war, and the same individuals are now seeing 'enemies' as less than human.

The two situations combined will inevitably lead to cruelty and even these war crimes that still persist. I was quite shocked to see the British squaddies beating up the Iraqi behind the fence. I was mostly shocked by the voice of the guy videoing the incident (also a squaddie) confidently predicting

You also have the demographics of the US army in the 1940's and even in more recent times to consider. A mix of men often from small rural communities and poor urban areas where racial communities are still to some extent segregated even if not actually antipathetic towards each other due to colour and/or financial/ religious reasons. In many instances the men who entered the military had never been further away from their home than the nearest large town and tool little interest in wider world affairs so deep insularity was added to the mix.

Send them to foreign lands where they have effectively been told the enemy are sub-human and it would frankly be more suprising if they had not reacted in the way many (but not all) of them did.

American and to some extent every military unit in the world has exhibited similar symptoms throughout history - even in our 'more' enlightened times - just consider some of the stories arising from Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years.

So far as finding it a suprise is concerned, these stories have been fairly common knowledge for decades not least since My Lai happened and the older WW2 stories started to surface possibly as a form of expiation.

The problem I suspect is that several parts of the media tend to operate a form of self-censorship so any hint of the underlying issues keep getting supressed and any 'new' horror comes as a suprise to them that 'their' troops could act in such a horrific way.

Two articles I found.

 

http://couchtripper....soldiers/?p=270

 

http://portland.indy...09/366078.shtml

 

What do you think? I may be American and the American version of History they teach is that American Soldiers were Good Guys who were welcomed and beloved by the French and German populace.

The second isn't an article but a letter.

Anyone who's read a number of memoirs or even seen Saving Private Ryan or knows the story of Band of Brothers is aware that GIs often killed German or Japanese prisoners.

Soldiers aren't angels, when is that news? To turn the argument around a bit I could care less about German or Japanese victims, by 1945 their nations had killed tens of millions of Chinese, Filipinos, Jews, Slavs & Gypsy civilians or caused the deaths of tens of millions of others etc., just for being who they were.

I don't buy into the fiction that just because they weren't Nazi party members or were drafted or---name your argument--that they are innocents. Some of the most brutal massacres were committed by Wehrmacht units and tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians were systematically shot by German police battalions (called up police reservists) made up of non-party members.

It would be interesting to know the number of american victims assaulted by american soldiers and how it compares.

Anyway, even 12000 rapes by americans in Germany is not that much compared with an estimated 2 millions done by the Red Army. Other WW2 examples of mass rapes are the Rape of Nanjing committed by the Japanese Army in the Chinese capital and the rampage done by French soldiers from Morocco after the Battle of Monte Cassino in Ciociaria region of Latium.

The difference is not only in scale, but in attitude. There is a huge difference between crimes committed in times of war and dealt with by military justice and the situation when the Army itself unleashes the soldiers on the civilian population like the Russians and the Japanese did.

Soldiers aren't angels, when is that news? To turn the argument around a bit I could care less about German or Japanese victims, by 1945 their nations had killed tens of millions of Chinese, Filipinos, Jews, Slavs & Gypsy civilians or caused the deaths of tens of millions of others etc., just for being who they were.

 

 

I don't buy into the fiction that just because they weren't Nazi party members or were drafted or---name your argument--that they are innocents. Some of the most brutal massacres were committed by Wehrmacht units and tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians were systematically shot by German police battalions (called up police reservists) made up of non-party members.

The Americans have done the same to Indians. Honestly I'd have no remorse for shooting German soldiers too. But the sight of noncombatant women and children getting killed no matter what side they're from.

Hey some of the most brutal acts by the Allies were done by the French and that includes gang rape of Italian women,etc. So I'm not bashing Americans exclusively.

But I am disgusted with the portrayal of all American soldiers as a mystique figure who's the embodiment of virtues and thats not just World War 2 but wars in general. A lot of American soldiers are utter rogues, if not criminals, and many who are of combat MOS were bad bad people before enlisting.

I SEEN it myself first hand as I live near a military base.

Which is why I enjoyed the insights of this article-it exposes many soldiers as thugs and not as heroes (I'm not saying all American soldiers were like this and its more like shades of gray but we need to hear more about American attrocities).

Why I heard of American soldiers coercing women in Korea and Japan into sexual slavery post-world war 2.

All this hero-worship of soldiers (especially in America) has to stop. 

 

Two articles I found.

 

http://couchtripper....soldiers/?p=270

 

http://portland.indy...09/366078.shtml

 

What do you think? I may be American and the American version of History they teach is that American Soldiers were Good Guys who were welcomed and beloved by the French and German populace.

The second isn't an article but a letter.

 

Anyone who's read a number of memoirs or even seen Saving Private Ryan or knows the story of Band of Brothers is aware that GIs often killed German or Japanese prisoners.

 

Soldiers aren't angels, when is that news? To turn the argument around a bit I could care less about German or Japanese victims, by 1945 their nations had killed tens of millions of Chinese, Filipinos, Jews, Slavs & Gypsy civilians or caused the deaths of tens of millions of others etc., just for being who they were.

 

I don't buy into the fiction that just because they weren't Nazi party members or were drafted or---name your argument--that they are innocents. Some of the most brutal massacres were committed by Wehrmacht units and tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians were systematically shot by German police battalions (called up police reservists) made up of non-party members.

 

HOW THE HELL can you justify war rapes in Normandy???!!!! Especially when the victims were the FRENCH-OUR ALLIES WHO WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE LIBERATING!!!! Especially when some of the girls were only teenagers who were still dreaming about marriage????!!!!

Its one thing for crimes to be done against the enemies (which has always gone for thousands of years). But you seriously are screwed up if you're going to try to justify rape of the faction who is supposed to be our allies! I mean you even wnet off topic and put the non-related topics of Japanese killing millions (totally different topic).

And your ignorance astounds me. If you knew anything about the Japanese front, the Imperial Japanese Army even ABUSED their own country's citizens such as the mass shootings of whole village and wide looting of Japanese homes by low ranks. You could care less how many Japanese civilians were killed in the war? Are you even aware Japanese soldiers went around beating store owners and robbing them for fun?

And its so off topic . You're trying to justify soldiers aren't angels as the reason why the rapes of French civilians isn't so bad?  So by your logic if the National Guard started going around rampaging into American citizens home and raping little girls, hey should be excused because our enemies done far worse stuff and soldiers aren't angels? What the hell kind of world are you living in? Did your parents ever teach you manners to a girl?

An interesting topic - I think that one thing which has been true throughout history is that war brings out the worst in people.

Didn't Eisenhower have a couple of soldiers shot for rape at some point?

(somethign personal) ...well, my grandfahter who served under Rommel in Africa was captured in 1943 and sent to america as a POW, it was according to him one of the best time of his life, he was working in the cotton fields in Texas, orange plantations in Florida, and logging camps in northern Michigan, according to him it was hard work but lots of good treatment, and especially in northern Michigan it felt like home. They were treated correct with good food and entertainment, most of them wanted to stay in the USA and not go back home... for example  he was eating his meals with the USA cutlery he got while being a POW, and that right to the day he died in 1995...

What a cool story!  One of my friends found a German Iron Cross medal from World War I about an hour from here, where there was a POW camp in 1918.

My old friend (now deceased) who was a prisoner of Nazi Germany for 6 months at the end of WW2 was not treated very well.