UNRV Brexit poll

Well, I can see things have been pretty quiet at the Forum lately. I myself have been on an extended leave for some time now. I do miss sharing ideas on this Forum though. So, as I tend to follow British politics fairly closely, I was wondering what our British (and other) forum members think of the upcoming EU referendum this week. Are you voting in or out? And if you are not British, which way would you go?

It's confusing.  We're being lied to by both sides about the impact of leaving.  The 'Exit' mob are telling us how rich we'll be and the 'Remain' mob are saying that leaving will cause massive job losses as Europe will then impose tariffs on our exports.  I've decided that the best way to reach a decision is to choose a politician who I can't stand and whose opinion I deride.  I'll then vote the opposite way to them.

You can change this thread into a real poll where surprising numbers of lurkers will vote. Or at least start a new one with voting capability. I almost fell off my chair for the poll here "why do you like the Romans" because nobody had checked the one obvious and to me proper reason, but tons of votes on reasons I had considered peripheral.
 
As a non-Brit, I pray that they do the right thing and LEAVE!!! Actually they would convert into a Norway (Iceland, Switz somewhat) style and join EEA and one other acronym I forget which gives virtually all the benefits with few of the dysfunctional drawbacks. I used to always get a weekly British news magazine, and remember how they explained Turkey should have striven to join EEA rather than EU with win-win results (probably Greece and some others too with hindsight).

EU seems an elitist condescending organization which doesn't respond to democratic citizen feedback. They are particularly tone-deaf to some of the things that made Britain an inspiration to the world, eg in terms of liberty and finance. A few hundred years ago Britain was run on an efficient low tax rate system that made it wealthier than the continent, and still with plenty tax revenue due to thriving economy.

It just burns me up to see e.g. the EU trying to impose taxes on trivial financial transactions. Not the money it would cost, but there would be an implosion of price discovery because nobody would want to sell and buy to incur taxes. This glue in the system is a reason why Japan has many zombie companies and a 25 year recession. Housing prices are inherently boom and bust because the natural friction of buying and selling hurts logical price discovery. Spreading this plague to for instance pensions would leave you unsure if you ever had them funded enough (EU has some other  idiotic overreactions that make pension growth hard),

I recently imported a couple small boats from Europe (amazing you can do that... in one case it was just a couple mouse clicks and a UPS man brought the thing on a trolley with a modest customs bill). They have stamped on them some mandatory EU limitations that are so draconian I would not be allowed to use them in 95% of the weather here.... pooh, I have had a long life on the water with no need for patronizing nannies or for that matter any kind of rescue.

I'm not doing this the justice it deserves, but propose that if Brit does the right thing, I would advocate my country joining the Brit commonwealth which I gather has become rather toothless, but we could revive with free-er trade etc.
 

The European Economic Area (EEA) is the area in which the Agreement on the EEA provides for the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital within the internal market of the European Union (EU).

It's confusing.  We're being lied to by both sides about the impact of leaving.  The 'Exit' mob are telling us how rich we'll be and the 'Remain' mob are saying that leaving will cause massive job losses as Europe will then impose tariffs on our exports.  I've decided that the best way to reach a decision is to choose a politician who I can't stand and whose opinion I deride.  I'll then vote the opposite way to them.

Very interesting response, sonic. I bet it is confusing what with each side often advocating completely opposing views. So, when you say you'd choose a politician you despise, would Nigel Farage be a good candidate? 

 

You can change this thread into a real poll where surprising numbers of lurkers will vote. Or at least start a new one with voting capability. I almost fell off my chair for the poll here "why do you like the Romans" because nobody had checked the one obvious and to me proper reason, but tons of votes on reasons I had considered peripheral.

 

 

 

Great idea caesar novus! You can now express your dissatisfaction with the EU in the poll at the top of this thread! 

 

It's confusing.  We're being lied to by both sides about the impact of leaving.  The 'Exit' mob are telling us how rich we'll be and the 'Remain' mob are saying that leaving will cause massive job losses as Europe will then impose tariffs on our exports.  I've decided that the best way to reach a decision is to choose a politician who I can't stand and whose opinion I deride.  I'll then vote the opposite way to them.

 

Very interesting response, sonic. I bet it is confusing what with each side often advocating completely opposing views. So, when you say you'd choose a politician you despise, would Nigel Farage be a good candidate? 

 

He's definitely one of them.  Nigel Farage and Michael Gove are two politicians I loathe, so maybe I shouldn't have voted 'undecided'!

(EU has some other  idiotic overreactions that make pension growth hard)

I thought I would do a quick sanity check for this issue... how rectally retentive EU policy may be sabotaging the very pensions they try to save. I found this "Double hit scenario" confirmation writeup from "European Insurance and Occupational Pensions Authority" http://www.europeanpensions.net/ep/Double-hit-scenario-cannot-be-ruled-out-EIOPA-says.php%20.php

I may have this a bit wrong, but it seems so true to national characters that continental Europe found the volatility in stock markets 8 years ago too unsettling for pension use and mandated a mostly bond approach. Where are you now, with "safe" bonds giving 0 or negative yields?! This can have dire impacts on everyone, now that to hire a meter maid a gov't or corp has to find a billion euro to put aside to fund that one pension.

UK (and I think the Dutch) are far more stock-saavy and know how to surf the financial seas greatly to their benefit. I mean about a hundred times more activity in stock investment per capita than the other countries by both individuals and institutions. And it has real impact... when a corporation has EU mandated burden after burden imposed on it, they simply pass on the cost to consumers. The very folks that celebrate this have to pay for it as a REGRESSIVE kind of pseudo-tax... impacting the poor and middle incomers disproportionately in higher cost of living.

EU is fine for small countries that desperately need a higher level of organization, but not for large countries with demonstrated excellence of organization which could only be dragged down by naive meddling from the others. Britain please free yourself, even if regions north of the Hadrian's wall have to be spun back to the EU. Revive the commonwealth and build it even bigger than the EU!

Britain will be smaller and in tatters if they leave, and it has more to do with Northern Ireland and Scotland than with the continental Euro countries...

btw as always entertaining with lots of truth

Personally I've never liked the European Union. I support the Common Market, but the idea of becoming part of a federated European superpower sits uneasily with me. All empires, however accumulated, break up at some point, and it's never pretty, so whilst it's an opportunity for a few well placed politicians to get their names in the history books it will eventually leave a bitter legacy of some kind. As it stands, the EU is dangerously close to wobbling under its own weight, leaving Germany ironically with a European empire it doesn't want to dominate on its own resources. As much as there is something to be said for staying in, the advantages are short term. Long term, I would be happier with Britain resuming its independent stance. The 'Project Fear' is of little concern - Britain is quite capable of getting into a mess without Europe and the effects of leaving won't necessarily be felt immediately, but then, most of what we lose in legal terms can be re-introduced in British legislation anyway, and since our trading and security relationships are with individual nations and not the EU as a whole - where's the issue?

...i think Britain will be in for a very rude awakening. Very!

Remaining Euro countries will set an example for other countries, if you leave you going to suffer...

Well, today is the day! I'll be following the news with interest throughout the day to see which way things are going (although I believe we'll only get the definite results at some point tomorrow). 

I won't lie: I'm definitely pro-EU and hope that the UK votes to remain. I have had the privilege of enjoying all the benefits and freedoms that the EU provides all its citizens. Sure, it is not perfect (but neither is any national government!) but I think it has enabled Europe to grow closer together and enjoy an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity since the ravages of war in the 20th century. Having lived and worked in Brussels from 2001 to 2010, I have had the chance to witness the way it works from up close. Sure it can be bureaucratic and often ineffective (it is not entirely to blame, mind you, as national governments still have the final say in major decisions taken within the bloc unlike what the "leave" campaign has been advocating) but the bureaucrats and particularly MEPs are mostly genuinely committed people working towards a better common future.

The divisive and often explosive referendum campaign is perhaps a wake-up call that ordinary citizens (in the UK and elsewhere) want the EU to change and reform. But I don't think leaving is the way to go. I hope our British friends choose to stay and, who knows, even spearhead a future campaign to reform the EU.

Sonic, this one is for you!

See why many people are confused?  The number of lies told by both sides is appalling.

Indeed but, to be fair, the lies told by the leave campaigners seem a bit more outrageous.

As a non-Brit, I don't understand the nuances of the issues and I shouldn't voice my opinion.

As someone who favors libertarian views, however, I am very sympathetic to the "exit" side which favors less bureaucracy and not more. I worry, however, about the unintended consequences such as Scotland's leaving the UK.

Let us hope that things work out well for our friends in Britain, however.

guy also known as gaius