Latin or Greek in Judea ca. 30 AD?

After seeing The Passion of the Christ, me and some of my friends have been argueing whether

Pilate's Roman soldiers in Judea really spoke Latin (as they did in the film), or would the film have been more "historical" if the Romans had spoken Greek? Did Romans at that time levy legions outside Italy in the Greek-speaking parts of the Empire, or were all legionnaries Latin-speaking and brought from Italy? I'd be really grateful for an answer, especially if you can provide some reference so I can win the debate, and show my friends accurate sources so they believe me! (My "bet" is that they should have spoken Greek...)

By legionnaries, I mean milites and not auxialiries or such, who were of course recruited from "barbarian" tribes.

Hello edpalu and welcome to UNRV!

You might find those threads interesting

Languages: Greek and Latin

and The passion of the christ.

cheers

viggen

To be raised as a legionare, you had to have Roman Citizenship - and im pretty sure by the Time of the Passions that Citizenship was not granted to everyone with in the Empier, but it might have been.

Well if it wasnt, troops would be either raised from Italy, or other parts of the Empire that had citizenship, or by Roman colonies throughout the Empire.

Either way, I still think they would have to have spoken latin

Legionaries active during the time period of the film were still mostly recruited from Italy, but it was changing rapidly. It is likely that most would have spoken Latin.

Specifically in Judaea there were 3 known cohorts of Auxilia.

There were two cohorts of auxiliaries in Jerusalem and a third cohort guarded the capital Caesarea. Two cohorts of infantry and one squadron of cavalry served throughout the province.

The Cavalry cohort was Ala I Sebastenorum that consisted of Samaritans and probably spoke a local dialect and perhaps Greek. We also know of the existence of a Cohors I Sebastenorum, which was also a Samaritan unit with similar language possibilities.

Other known units that funcitoned in Judaea are the Cohors Prima Italica Civium Romanorum, the Cohors Secunda Italica Civium Romanorum and the Italian Cohors Prima Augusta. These are obviously Italian units and Latin would've been the primary language.

Of regular legionary units, Judaea at the time was considered under the command of the Legate in Syria.

The known Legions operating in the region at the time of Christ were:

III Gallica - Recruits from cisalpine and transalpine Gaul and likely Latin speakers.

VI Ferrata - Recruits from cisalpine and transalpine Gaul and likely Latin speakers.

X Fretensis - Recruits from Italy and Latin speakers.

XII Fulminata - Also orignally Gallic or Italian recruits and likely speakers of Latin.

However all Legions were supplemented at times by recruits of various regions. It is possible that any of these main contingents would've have been supplemented by local citizens in the east. So yes, there were probably some Greek speakers, but the main body of troops would've have been from a latin origin and the tradition of language would've required new recruits to speak that which was common of the main body. However, in Judaea, communicating with the locals would've been easier in Greek, but there is no reason to believe that the Legions would care what was easy for the locals. An argument can be made for either side, I suppose.

Inscription evidence, letters and so forth are mainly in Latin. But only so much survives, and inscriptions and letters don't necessarily indicate what the spoken language was.

Hope that helps, but I think from a legionary standpoint you are on the wrong side of the argument. Still though, there is really no right or wrong in it. As I've suggested from this brief synopsis, either argument can be made and there is no reason not to pursue further evidence.

Mehercle! Seems like I was wrong... Thank you for a thorough answer though! That was really enlightening and convincing.

Before I read the end of the thread I had supposed that the legions would be Latin speakers. But Pontius Pilate himself, might he have preferred to speak Greek?

The new testament was originally written in Greek... instead of Latin.

Actually all four Gospels of the New Testament were in different languages. These four gospels were different versions of the strory written by different men for a particular crowd - which is why you can see some politics added to the whole thing....

For example the Gospels which contains the story about the centurion was written for the Romans, while none of the other gospels contain those stories.

I cant remember who wrote what, but one was a Greek translation, one a Latin, and the other two Im not sure...I think Syrian was one....Guessing the other would have been Judean

As far as i know, the oldest known manuscripts of Matthew and Mark are written in Greek. I believe those fragments have been verified as dating from as early as the 60s A.D.

There is no evidence that the Gospels were written originally in any other language but Greek. If there were versions of Matthew or the other Gospels originally penned in Aramaic, they were very quickly translated into Greek so that they could be utilized throughout the Roman world.

cheers

viggen

I just thought - where was Pontius Pilate born, raised, and educated? I have seen one web site that claims he was Scottish but the more conventional history is that he was Italian I think.

This will tell us what Pilate's primary language was.

From his name it seems that he was a native of southern Italy. 'Pontius' is the Oscan form of the Latin name "Quintus"; 'Pilatus' seems to have been a fairly typical Samnite cognomen, meaning "armed with a spear". Any claims that he was Scottish are pure rubbish. The Romans had not even invaded Britain by the the time of his birth (not counting Caesar's exploratory landings).

By the time he was born, most people in Italia would have grown up speaking Latin, but anyone who was educated would know Greek. Greek was the diplomatic and administrative language for the whole eastern part of the Mediterranean, including Palestine, and the language of culture and learning for the entire Mediterranean. So Pilate probably grew up speaking Latin natively, but I think it's almost unquestionable that he would have used Greek during his term as Procurator of Judaea.

His soldiers, however, probably didn't understand Greek, right?

Higher ranking officers were likely educated in Greek. Just the common legionary serving in the area at the time were likely Latin speakers.

although, if they'd been in the provinces for long enough, I'm sure they knew at the very least enough Greek to get by... I'm sure they had plenty of opportunity for interaction with the locals and that interaction would most likely have happened in Greek.

although, if they'd been in the provinces for long enough, I'm sure they knew at the very least enough Greek to get by... I'm sure they had plenty of opportunity for interaction with the locals and that interaction would most likely have happened in Greek.

The first thing the soldiers learned was "Where is the brothel?"

Anyway, where was Pontius's wife from? I want to ascertain if he might have fallen back to Latin in his private moments.

Greek was the language of culture and learning of the entire Mediterranean - but by the Englightenment European scientific papers were published in Latin. That't the language Newton published in.