Pictures compliments of Calgary ramp attendant
Kelly Paterson
This is a drain mast. When the flight attendants pour coffee down the drain, where do you think it goes? One has to careful when doing the walk around. Believe it or not it is heated. When the fluid makes its way to the ramp, it looks like the airplane is relieving itself.
Light rime possibly mixed icing on leading edge and underneath.
Maintenance adding heat to a cold A319 engine.
This photo is sent from contacts at Toronto's CDF.
The Vestergaard Elephant Betas are hard at work.
I'll be teaching airframe icing at the Brampton Flight Center (tomorrow), so I thought I'd post this question sent in to enRoute from James in BOS (Boston).
Dear Captain Doug.
Happy New Year! During the past few weeks, there has been a whole lot of snow and freezing rain all over the country and most of the aircraft have had to go to the deicing bay to get a spray. My question to you is: How much does it cost to deice a plane and who manufactures this deicing liquid?Thank you in advance. Good luck for 2010 and fly safe.
James. Just received your email from enRoute magazine.
Below are the stats for my airplane (Airbus 320) to get deiced at the world's largest facility (Toronto) of it's kind:
At Toronto's CDF (Central Deice Facility) each deice truck costs $1 million. The facility has 28 of them. Actually, they bought two more able to deice the mammoth Airbus 380 at a price tag of 1.2 million. A typical Airbus 320 takes 300 liters of type I and 250 liters of type IV.
Just for us to show up at the CDF costs $350. One liter of TYPE I costs about one dollar whereas TYPE IV costs about $2/liter. Rumor has it, if we get deiced then most of the profit is lost for that flight. But there is an adage in aviation, "if you think safety is expensive, try having an accident."
The deicing fluid supplier is DOW chemicals, but a few others provide it as well.
Below are the stats for my airplane (Airbus 320) to get deiced at the world's largest facility (Toronto) of it's kind:
At Toronto's CDF (Central Deice Facility) each deice truck costs $1 million. The facility has 28 of them. Actually, they bought two more able to deice the mammoth Airbus 380 at a price tag of 1.2 million. A typical Airbus 320 takes 300 liters of type I and 250 liters of type IV.
Just for us to show up at the CDF costs $350. One liter of TYPE I costs about one dollar whereas TYPE IV costs about $2/liter. Rumor has it, if we get deiced then most of the profit is lost for that flight. But there is an adage in aviation, "if you think safety is expensive, try having an accident."
The deicing fluid supplier is DOW chemicals, but a few others provide it as well.
18 comments:
Captain Doug,
Don't some airports have a "drive thru" deicing rather than the trucks? KPIT comes to mind. It seems that a permanent tower would be less expensive than a few million dollars worth of trucks.
Aaron
2whls3spds
Yes, there are. At one time Paris, France had that system, but not any more. They have gone back to trucks. Some places, like Denver I believe, have fixed deice booms but
most airports utilize trucks. I guess they offer maneuverability. Remember, each aircraft may have inherent requests. The Dash -8 frequently requires the props to be sprayed requiring close finesse. There are airports also experimenting with infra-red and tempered steam.
Good point though.
Doug
Is that answer straight from your book? seems vaguely familiar
Andrew. The answer I gave
2whls3spds or the original from Boston?
The original came mostly from my book. Good memory.
Just doing an amazing PowerPoint on deicing for tomorrow's class. Doug
Send some of that snow our way for the olympics, we need it bad.
Reader from YVR
Hi Anon. Those pictures are a few years old, but I guess for you Vancouverites every little bit helps.
I was in Vancouver last week and the ski hills looked pretty white from the city, but I did hear things may be a different story.
Hope it all works out.
Captain Doug
In reality I prefer the "green" method of deicing...let the plane sit in the sun :-D doesn't do too much for an on time departure though... Then again I consider anything below 40*f uninhabitable.
Aaron
Aaron. The warm sun is certainly the green way to go, but like you said, it would kill the operation. I've mentioned this before,it's one of the many reasons Southwest Airlines is so successful. They tend to stay out of the cold climates.
Captain Doug
Accident: Turkish Airlines A343 at Istanbul on Jan 24th 2010, de-icer killed.
http://avherald.com/h?article=42644b05&opt=0
Hi Viken. I see you are number 55 in followers. Welcome! Yes, people don't appreciate the fact these guys are up two to five stories in the air. A deicer was killed in Calgary, Alberta over a month ago. Plus a horrific accident occurred n Montreal years ago where two deicers fell to their death. It's why we don't move until we know for sure all equipment is clear.
Thanks for the post/link and again welcome aboard.
Captain Doug
Thanx Doug, in the event of the turkish de-icer, I just don't understand how the all-clear was given by ground staff to the PIC when the de-icer was still in the way. I believe ground staff should be prosecuted in such a case.
Viken. As for most accidents and incidents, it's rarely just one thing but a culmination of events. It could have been language issues, poor reception or bad headsets, lack of training or procedures. The list is long as far as speculation. I was de-iced late last night in Edmonton, Alberta with only one truck. Because of it, the first officer had to go back and do a PDI (Post Deice Inspection). This procedure came about after an incident Air Canada had in Boston where only one wing was de-iced. I bet there will be a change in procedures after this "Turkish" incident.
Again, welcome to the blog.
Doug
Hi again Doug, Luckily in such warm weather as in LCA(LCLK) we do not require de-icing (during the summer heat, we might need "icing" instead, heheheh).
But you're correct, it's basically human error, which unfortunately usually comes down to poor training of ramp staff! Seen it all over the world.
Rgds/Vik
Viken. I must admit, I had to look up where LCLK (Larnaca) was. So you live in Cyprus. Yes, deicing is not an issue for you.
What are you flying?
Doug
Doug, I had to quit flying years ago due to health complications. Now I'm stuck on the hard ground!!!
Viken. Sorry to hear that. Are you doing anything aviation related with your present job?
Thanks for all the posts.
Doug
Oh yes. I'm station manager providing supervision & handling services to some airlines at LCA. Your Star Alliance partners LOT is one of our customers. Mind you, couldn't leave aviation, LOL. Been involved in it since 1979. It's like a virus in my veins!!!!
Viken. I agree, aviation is not only a passion, but a disease. It's in your blood. Hence, the passion.
Doug
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